Celery Man wrote:

My main point by saying that, was from a point of view of balance. I hate the idea that somebody can be hidden from UAVs, but yet can still call them in, and same with air support. At least when using Specialist you have no Killstreaks to call in, so you should have a different advantage.

Somebody using Blind Eye, Assassin and Dead Silence is almost just as deadly as somebody on Specialist bonus, because, I feel at least, that the best thing about Specialist is being able to be hidden from all Air Support and make no sound, and still be able to use Sleight of Hand, Stalker etc. Also, the perks that you get with Specialist (Marksman and Sitrep specifically) are rendered useless by somebody using those three perks together, yet they have the ability to also call in airstrikes, stealth bombers, recon drones and assault drones, all of which are very effective against somebody on Specialist.

At least if you had to earn the pro ability, or choose either one or the other, you wouldn’t be completely countered against somebody who is skilled enough to earn all their perks, at least without being skilled enough to earn them yourself. Specialist seems to be a reward for the above average players, but imagine if it had a major advantage such as the only Package that has the ability to be fully hidden, a lot of average or below average players would start using it, which would take a lot of the emphasis off of air support, which is surely something that everybody wants.

^ That reminds me another idea I had back in the MW2 days, you do the challenges for the pro variant but you still had to choose between the original perk or pro perk, obviously some perks would have to have better pro variants to make them worth choosing but still...

xSinRG wrote:

I did not say that good players ruin COD. People like you however, who are good, but can't stop from bitching about how they could have done better without x, y, & z, ruin COD. You come off as entitled. I didn't start off angry. My first suggestion was that its hard to feel sorry for you or feel the need for the changes you suggested when your example is in the midst of a 65-5 game. You then went on to point a few things you do as a player that in my opinion are just as bad as the guy camping in the caves.

You admitted that you regularly have fans join your games to help you with gameplay, without ever being a team player to them. You complain about a killstreak going up but then refuse to do anything about it, relying on said teammates to take of it for you just so you can have a big game. While all of that is incredibly annoying and makes you a selfish player, it would be ridiculous for me to suggest some kind of game mechanic that restricted you for playing like a selfish asshole.

I don't have any improvements to your idea because I disagree with the premise. I think it is a little silly to restrict things based on playstyle.

What if I said, hey if you aren't willing to ever shoot down air support then you can't call any in, that would be absurd.

Rushing is one way to play this game but certainly not the only one. Sometimes different gamemodes can call for a more defensive playstyle, like say CTF for example. Sure I'll agree that laying down in a low traffic area of a map ignoring objectives is a lame way to play this game. But these people are easy to avoid and rarely put up decent games. People like you, good rushers, are far more annoying to deal with than some corner camper. If you are the better player then you will defeat any playstyle. There is no need for additional rules that apply to certain players.

I can appreciate opinions just fine, but that doesn't mean I have to treat all of them equally, but thanks for the invite to GTFO. Maybe you should listen to your own advice.

-.-

So I ruin CoD, which is a video game, by "apparently" complaining (or what is commonly known as “suggesting ways to improve it”) about it on a forum. Fantastic logic.

A game cannot be ruined by somebody talking about it. Yet again, try thinking before you post.

Just because I don’t run Stingers on my classes does not make me as bad as a camper lol. I don’t run Stingers because I don’t want to, and when I am on Specialist, which is a lot of the time, I don’t have to worry about air support so much. If you don’t agree with that fine, just never play with me, but don’t try and slag me off for my perfectly acceptable playstyle, just because it is not the same as yours. If there was a problem with people moving, and not taking down air support then fine, feel free to hate on me, but I have never heard anyone complain about somebody that moves, or doesn’t use Stingers, so I don’t get your point here.

I never complained about the killstreaks either, I said that the way in which he achieved them was bad. If I complained about killstreaks, but said I don’t run Stingers, then fine, hate on me, but I never did. I suggested a way to stop people like him being able to earn killstreaks. So what I actually did was talk about a playstyle, not killstreaks.

You have also failed to take my advice of actually reading. I never said I was entitled to a better game. I used that game as an example to show how much difference one player can make when he can camp with specific perks for a killstreak. It's called an 'example'. Without providing an example, people would have said I was exaggerating, and would be telling me to provide examples, therefore I got one in to skip this process. I never asked you, or anyone else to feel sorry for me. Yet again, it was an example.

I also never said that playing defensively was bad. There is a time and a place. I said that camping in remote area is a stupid tactic, which you agreed with, so I don’t know why you even mentioned this.

Finally, are you seriously suggesting I leave my OWN thread? A thread I created to get other peoples opinions and ideas? If so, you are clearly rather more dim than I first feared.

@xSin, just to touch on what you said about stingers, even though air support doesn't bother you when you run specialist, it still wouldn't hurt to be a team player every now and then and shoot things down.

this post is hilarious, mainly because I was probably the guy in that cave and your whingeing is is just icing on the cake

The majority of those people who use that full perk combo rarely do well anyways.

There are examples of people running around doing very well simply because they are a strong player and that just add to it.

For the most part anyone who goes complete stealth usually goes negative/or barely positive. The odd times that they do well is when teammates feed them streaks. The one map where that combo seems to completely screw me is on village because they will lay on the trash piles in the creek bed and just ADS the choke points(they can see the top spawn to the left,the cave and the cliff.)Mean while if you are coming from that area,if you have to be killed by them you A. Have no idea to look on the trash pile B. Even if you do know they are there it's extremely hard to see them as is.

So more to that point non stealth players have sat and accomplished the same thing.

UAV spam is an issue in Domination and other objective modes I do agree. TDM not so much because they do literally have to still get 3 kills everytime to get the UAV and knowing most people it's UAV and some higher up kill streaks so they may only get 1-2 UAVs the entire game.

My suggestion for the whole if they are wearing Stealth perks is this.

If you are running Blind Eye you can not equip a Launcher(of any kind free fire or lock on) Your immune to air support so therefore you should not be able to shoot it down.

If you are running Assassin UAV/Advanced UAV is off limits to you. So if your location is blind to us you can't gain the ability to call in a UAV/Advanced UAV.(If your teammates do that is fine)

Blind Eye can act like the original COD 4 first slot. By this I mean when you equipped a Grip(and I think Noob Tubes) You lost your first perk. Essentially it would make you lose the ability to use a laumcher. To me this is completely fair.

I find it to be unbalanced that people can be immune to everything in the air AND still shoot them down....why should they be able to? They aren't affected by it and it's building up to their kill streaks and if they happen to get something while using those perks I then must COMPLETELY change my play style to avoid the kill streak(sit in a building basically) or B. Sprint from house to house or basically anything with a roof to constantly be a moving red dot.

I in no way find this to me unfair.Usually if we are getting Air Support up the enemy team is already getting crushed,but They would actually be forced to shoot the air support down without blind eye on. Pavelows/Attack Helis/Strafe Run/AH-6 are programmed to go towards the top player of the leader board on their team anyways.

They could all switch to blind eye and not be killed by the said kill streaks but they couldn't shoot it down though. Which is fine by me if it get's no kills. It's annoying knowing that the person with Blind Eye shot it down just to shoot it down.

When I run non stealth perks (which is most of the time)

I am showing up on the radar,I am no immune to air support. My only benefit is a faster Reload/faster weapon swap (which is nice for gun fights) or Scavenger(which I usually can get through my streaks prior to needing ammo anyways)
And I can have quick draw which is quick ADS/Equipment recovery(The ADS thing helps...unless lag comp is involved and the equipment is useful for 3 items top so it is only half a perk very quickly)

My suggestions in my mind is completely fair.

You are already avoiding Radar Kill streaks/Air Support or both. Why do you get the ability to shoot them down as well and call in Radar streaks? Doesn't seem right.

Again stealth get's one more benefit then anything else.
And it isn't right. If you only run assassin well you damn well better be willing to shoot Air Support down or you'll get destroyed by it.

@Otter- I have brought up the if you are using ghost/assassin you dont have a mini map a while back but it got shot down pretty hard. I like your variant as well, but you cant use uav and you dont get to see your teammates uavs either.

War Hound 33 wrote:

I can live with that. I figured they should at least be able to see teammates UAVs but most people use assassin anyways so there probably wouldn't be many UAVS up as is haha

Otter wrote:
Seeing a teamates uav could be a pro perk lol

War Hound 33 wrote:

And it takes a long time to get the pro perk. You have to actually get a pretty good amount of kills to get it..kills and maybe some kind of other goal.

Sit Rep is supposed to be a counter to dead silence and it's one of the hardest perks to get which isn't right.

Mean while the stealth perks are super easy to get.

After almost 12 days played I still have yet to get Blind Eye Pro.....Assassin on the other hand takes essentially no time at all haha

War Hound 33 wrote:
Perks shouldn't have drawbacks. It makes them less fun.

I agree with Mick, giving perks a downside just sucks all the fun out of it. However I wouldn't mind having negative perks like Resistance 3. They have a handful of perks which handicap you in exchange for bonus xp and they're actually quite fun to use.

welshboymick wrote:

So perk drawbacks make them less fun,but so does having a perk that makes you immune to various kill streaks while still letting you shoot them down.

You are wearing either perk to avoid a certain thing. That should be the bonus you get with it. That is it's only use To avoid things that put you on a radar or to avoid being seen by kill streaks. You shouldn't get to be able to shoot things down or call in the exact thing your countering(uav wise)

I run Pred/Air Strike Attack heli. Usually my attack heli is shot down by the blind eye kid who is 4-15. He wouldn't have been first priority to be shot at by the heli,he's at the bottom of the list and his teammates are refusing to pull out a launcher.
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You should be punished for A. Not having a blind eye class or B risking a death or 2 to shoot it down.

You have already successfully avoided the kill streak by running blind eye. Let's be realistic the majority of the community does not care about their teammates what so ever,they are shooting it down for their own benefit. Unless your in a party or you like to challenge yourself by playing solo is the only times you care about your teammates(and a lot of people play solo but just play for themselves)

I can't even tell you the amount of times I've played solo watch my team get destroyed air support in the air and not a single one of them pull a launcher out. Yet anytime I'm in a party against complete random it's like everyone of them runs blind eye and a launcher and shit is shot down. My randoms never run blind eye and give attack helis 7-8 kills.

My counter to Air support is to not run outside like a jackass. Their counter is blind eye.You don't get a launcher make the people who refuse to pull one out and take a death get punished.

Or I've got a better idea. Take crazy massive kill streaks out. I remember in COD4 days tons of people had no issue lighting a chopper up with their gun. Where did those players go?

xSinRG wrote:

First, no I was not suggesting you leave your own thread. I don't support that kind of thinking, that if I don't like your opinion you should leave. However that was your suggestion to me, so I made a poor attempt at sarcasm turning it towards you.

In my opinion, refusing to ever offer team support is the same as someone lying in the caves on domination. Both people are ignoring the team objective to kill whore. I get that you see air support infrequently thus you don't run stingers on every class. That's fine, why run something you don't use? What I don't get is why you don't have at least one anti air class to take out that air support if/when it does show up.

It seems that the only times you see air support are when people camp hard in low traffic area. Your solution is to restrict their use of killstreaks based on that playstyle. My solution is shoot it out of the sky. I actually idea of giving them some false confidence when they finally get that pavelow only to have it shot down as soon as it shows up.

@Otter

I disagree with your ideas and here is why. There is an important distinction with what Blind Eye offers, being invisible and not invincible to air support.

From the assault package the killstreaks impacted by Blind Eye are:

Sentry Gun
Attack Helicopter
Strafe Attack
AH-6
Pavelow

These are impacted because they are computer controlled killstreaks which means they will not target a blind eye user. All other assault killstreaks can kill Blind Eye users. Just because you don't get a wall hack/giant red box does not mean that a blind eye user won't die. When you pilot a self controlled killstreak you can still see blind eye users on the map, they just don't have a giant red box on them. You can still kill them.

For me, Blind Eye isn't nearly as strong in MW3 as maybe it has been in past games. By adding the support and specialist packages you see fewer assault killstreaks. The only ones that are troublesome I rarely see. The bump to 12 for the Pavelow has really impacted their use as well as the AC-130 as now you see one or the other. Everything else is relatively easy to take out with out Blind Eye. Couple that with losing out on other blue perks and I see no reason to use it. Occasionally running into a team of predator users can be annoying but other that I have little issue with killstreaks in this game.

Another issue with your suggestion is that won't it seem counter-intuitive to punish people for achieving the specialist bonus. Say someone sets up their specialist package without Blind Eye thus they can shoot things down, but getting to 8 kills actually penalizes them because they would then achieve Blind Eye but lose the ability to shoot anything down. Seems silly to me.

As evidenced by the OP there are a myriad ways to earning killstreaks, some of them good, some of them frustrating, so how is it reasonable to prevent people of an effective way to counter said killstreaks, when in any given match you have no idea how it was earned. Not every pavelow is earned the same way, so while I see why you would be frustrated by a blind eye user targeting your chopper, it seems dubious to defend the camper's arguably unearned air support.

I completely understand and get what your saying.

However onto your specialist idea the majority of people who run specialist are completely running that for their own benefit actually there is no "team" benefit to it.

So say you start out with no blind eye on and for some odd reason want to run a launcher...that's fine. If you earn blind eye then so be it. You can still shoot things down. It'd be the same thing as picking up a launcher off the ground and using it.

Your punished if you start with blind eye on, If you earn it that's peachy. But My bet is you'd be making Blind Eye your first unlock.

I have shot down less than 10 killstreaks/uavs total in almost 12 days played. Why? because you really don't need it in parties. And When I run blind eye....I don't run a launcher because that's a waste to me. I prefer to have another weapon I can switch to other then a damn launcher. and I'm immune to all AI support and usually if you have blind eye your not getting killed by other air support unless your team is giving you a group hug.

xSinRG wrote:

Does it really matter whether you are staring at your minimap or not ? No, your stats aren't a direct result of solely the interaction with your minimap. why would you bring up your stats to prove you don't stare at it then ? You just can't miss a chance to act smug and pretend you are some amazing COD player huh? Anyone who has ever play a public game should know that k/d is mostly affected by how terrible the players you are playing against are. The funny thing is you can't even deny it, most of then don't even shoot back at you. Did you think it was because you were so good players can't shoot back at you? Do you really think that your moabs come from your skill alone? They don't, meaning you aren't even solely responsible for how high your k/d is or how many moabs you have. If they don't, then why bring them them up at all? Try to remember that so you don't look delusional and so full of yourself.

IW tried to balance cold blooded/ghost by splitting it into perks. I think this solution is fine because it means you must use to 2 perk slots achieve what one perks has done in prior games. This can be a disadvantage if the perks you give up are great ones, but unfortunately we've learned that in MW3, nothing competes with Assassin. The 1st tier does a much better job of giving you good alternatives to Blind Eye. That's why I rarely run it, usually only doing so to complete the challenges.

The other solution as people have suggested is to put them in the same perk tier. This seems like the better suggestion at first glance, but you could have the same potential problem if there not other quality perks surrounding them. Think if Blind Eye were moved to tier 2 in MW3 in exchange for any other red perk. Does this actually solve anything? No it just solidifies the use of 1 stealth perk for the majority of players.

Another suggestion has been to put all the stealth perks in tier, so something like Blind Eye, Assassin, Dead Silence, and have Silencers take up that perk slot as noob tubes did in COD4. Again at first glance this seems great because now people can only have one of these, but the flipside is now everyone has one of these. Every player in the game will have some form of stealth perk.

I wish there were some way to experiment with these setups

mutumbo wrote:

Aren't you the same guy that posts about how GB is the end all be all of gaming and if you play GB you are apparently far superior to every other individual?

Only reason I run Blind Eye is for the faster lock-on, its like using stalker and then switching back to dead silence/sitrep/etc you feel slow without it, this is why I keep saying flip the pro variants of these stealth perks with the original perk, so you you have to actually use the perk to gain invisibility to air support. In my mind this is a much better solution than denying someone a launcher or making said perks exclusive to one play style as in the op.

xSinRG wrote:

Oh really? For someone who likes to come off as more intelligent than others you suspiciously seem to not really know what arrogance is. Allow me

ar·ro·gant/ˈarəgənt/
Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

Its refreshing to know you agree that you come off as being better than you really are.

Why do you think you are somehow good ? I know that question is very easy to answer by saying stats, moabs, having pubstar youtubers play with you, but just hear me out for a second.

I am a pretty athletic guy i play a lot of sports and sometimes i go to my local YMCA and shoot some hoops with friends and sometimes strangers. My friends and those strangers however, aren't so athletic. Some of them aren't light on their feet and most of them have pretty bad balance. Naturally when i get on the court I just dominate these people and score points left and right. The thing is though I have a brother that is on college basketball team and I see him and his team play everyday. compared to them i can barely shoot, dribble, or even do a proper lay up. I still dominate vs my friends, teenagers and other people at the YMCA. the main difference between me and you? I don't pretend I am somehow good because I can do well against people that can barely play. I don't sit here and quote how many times i have dribbles past people and made them look bad or how many points I have scored. I am a barely average basketball player and I don't pretend to be otherwise. I play the game to get some exercise and some fun, not to act arrogant about it every chance i get.

This may be cod but the principle is the same don't sit here and complain about how some scrub sat in the back of the map and got some help from his perks. If you've had 100's of moabs why are you worried about how some kid killed you once. Is it that bad? you went 60+ and he went 20-8... I you were as mature as you pretend to be you would get over it and keep on playing.

The problem isn't Stealth perks. They've been in every CoD game that included perks. Why was there so much backlash to Ghost in Black Ops and why has there been so much hate towards Assassin in MW3? It's the way people use these perks, not the perks themselves. Stealth is a tried and true playstyle and shouldn't be totally gimped by, for example, putting them all in the same tierslot. There's a lot of different ways of playing this game, and Stealth, I feel, is a totally viable option and always should be.

What needs to be adjusted is the balance of these perks, which is why I'm really glad Vonderhaar has been talking about UAV's and Assassin type perks. He knows that it's a problem that needs to be tweaked.

Blame the person for camping in the cave not going after the objective, not the perks. It's their mentality that's causing you anger. The perks obviously help, but Stealth perks are used by a lot more people that like to flank and rush as well.

And you're being naive if you think only the Support package supports and benefits your team. Every package has it's own advantages to helping your team win the game.

Celery Man wrote:

Aaaaah this takes me back to the days of Medal of Honor: Allied Assault where some servers said anyone that stayed in the same spot for 5 seconds dropped dead, not that it means CoD should have such a drastic approach but some idea that puts camping at a disadvantage

Otter wrote:

Im sure i've said some things along the lines of, there is more competition in competitive gaming, since that whats gb is. However, I have never said you are somehow better than everyone else who plays the game because you can sign up for gb. I could never say that about gb...
gb is a free competitive website that anyone can sign up for there is a large skill gap between players that sign up and play matches once in a while and players that put serious practice time into their game as team of 4 in order to win. That is true for obvious reasons.

bringing your distorted views about my possible opinion about competitive gaming does not taking away any of xsin's arrogant opinion of his skill.